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a debate

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الموضوع: a debate

  1. #1
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2011
    آخر نشاط
    27-02-2012
    على الساعة
    07:05 PM
    المشاركات
    18

    افتراضي a debate


    This is a translation of the below story for a debate between an American lecturer in Christianity versus other religions from cornel college usa (religions comparison studies ) doctor name was William shipper and one of the famous blind Muslim sheikhs during nineties called ( sheikh kishk).

    The doctor came to Egypt and visited sheikh kishk t o debate about Islam vs. Christianity saying :

    Doctor : what is the difference between you and us

    Kishk : difference is about basic things ( we are monotheists while you are tripling the God.. we say no one but Allah the only one .. while you say in the name of the father ,the son and the holy spirit (one God)

    Doctor : then what is the difference or the point there about tripling?

    Kishk:in order to understand this we need to forget about some of the obviously & invariable known things like having three things as one thing !.. how come that a father & son& holy spirit could be only one !?.. you know that multiplicity of beings is a meaning of inconsistency which means the numerous of the things , no matter what it is.. so how can we comprehend this formula that three could be one !?

    Doctor : give me an example of what you say

    S. kishk : if we bring a cup of tea , cup of water and a cup of milk .. and I ask you to believe that all are one .. will you agree with the idea or accept it !?.... if you say yes .. then you are against the principles of what the natural brain can apprehend..! .. and if you say that they are three .. I'll ask you how come that it is one at the same time ?

    Doctor : it is like the finger of the hand ( it has three bines .. but still we call it one finger)!!

    S.kishk : is this finger compounded or one simple piece ?

    Doctor : it is consisting of three bones

    s. kishk : so the god is a compounded god .. then who gathered him before he became a composite god .. who made the composition while he is the God , the creator of everything who made everything as you & me and everyone know and believe that ?

    Doctor : he himself compounded himself

    s. kishk : how & how he was before he did that ?

    Doctor : he was not compound

    s. kiskhk : so he was there alone before anything, without any thing ?

    S.kishk : or he was compounded after being compounded .. what means as you know that an occurrence has happened since a change has happened .. and that an occurrence should be antedated with nonbeing before the happen .. based on that can you tell me who brought the God from nonbeing to the real being ! while he is the first who is nothing before him and the last who is nothing after him and nothing can contain him ?

    Doctor : whispering ( I certify that God is one ) .. but what is the mistake Or guilt of the people that message of prophet Mohamed did not reach them or they did not know about it ?

    S. kishk : look .. about the message point of view .. people are three groups :

    * people they knew about the message and accepted it with submission to allah & believed with Mohamed ( they will get rewarded with paradise & no torment at the end )

    * people they hear and know the message but refused to believe it or denied the message ( they will face the reward of disbelief .. no paradise for them) as stated by Allah the holder of the judgment day.

    * the out of logic group ..[ due to telecommunications innovations , space exploration and media technologies facilities available now ( there was no internet at that time ) ] yet they will have to face the situation and to justify it while the decision still to the owner of the judgment day who sent the prophet to be believed .. not to wait till the last day .. then to ask or to decide to believe him after being too late.

    Then s. kishk asked : why you did not believe Mohamed ?

    Doctor : I believe in him

    s. kishk : then what is difference between Mohamed and Eissa p.b.u.o. them in your believe .

    Doctor : I believe in Eissa as a son of the God &the prophet Mohamed as a prophet of God.

    s. kishk :what is the use of a prophet you believe in him but not believing him!?.. And about the sonship relation between Allah and Eissa P.B.U.o.Him ,is it biological & physiological relation? or merciful sonship relation as a creature of him the God?

    Doctor : keep silent for a while then asked to repeat the question again

    s.kishk : explaining through the translator brought by the doctor .. asking ( the sonship relation how has it happen .. how God beget the son who is a god as you people claiming ?? .. who was directing the globe before Eissa was borne .. and if as you know that Eissa is the son of Miriam p.b.u.o.her .. who was the creator of Miriam before she deliver Eissa ?

    .. if you say that he created his mother !? before she deliver him ! I'll tell you no way .. since the creation necessitate the availability of the creator before his creatures to do the creation .. so how come that he was there before he was created to create his mother to deliver him !? how come he was there before he is there !? which time is correct ?! could it be that a thing happen after and before itself at the same time ?

    Isn't it contumacy or contradiction with simple known principals of timing ?

    Doctor : whispering again .. I certify that Eissa is a slave of Allah .. he is not a son of him .. but a prophet only with miracle on his birth & nothing else .



    Doctor :: thanking him and going

    s.kishk :wondering .. why this was very hard to the people to think about while it was easy 1400 year before without computers or media or technology at that time .. saying to the doctor that we Muslims believed in eissa & Mohamed as prophets .. let me tell this story happened during Egyptian khedives time one century ago :

    one day the as the khedive used to gather all religious leaders of Egypt to have dinner with him .. he asked all ( the Jewish priest , the Christian priest & Al Azhar sheikh Mohamed Abdo) .. said to them you are the three will aware of your religions came by Allah's prophets and all of you claims that he and the followers of his religion the only people will go to paradise !! could every one convince me of his justification of this ??

    the Jewish priest said I'm answering after the Christian priest , the Christian priest said I'll be after the Muslim sheikh Mohamed Abdo { seems that the question was a surprise to all !!}

    Sheikh Mohamed Abdo said .. your honored khedive .. if the Jewish will be in paradise due to believing of Musa P.B.U.O. him .. so we Muslims are going to paradise since no Muslim could be a Muslim unless he believe Mousa .

    If Christians claim that they will be in paradise due to believing of Eissa P.B.U.O. him .. so the same are Muslims .. since no Muslim can claim that he is a Muslim unless he believe in Eissa .

    And we Muslims are claiming that Muslims will be in paradise since we believe in both prophets in addition to prophet Mohamed P.B.U.O. him and no one of them will be there since they denied his message and refused to believe in him or believe him .. so our believe is complete while they still refusing the fact of Mohamed

    hope that something clarified doctor



    Please not that anttranslation mistake will be due to my limited sick English.. so please forgive me]



    translated by ( Abu Abdullah Al-texany) Not me



    http://youtu.be/V6RKO0TE9c8

    «« توقيع ysooo »»

  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Dec 2010
    الديانة
    المسيحية
    آخر نشاط
    12-07-2012
    على الساعة
    02:49 PM
    المشاركات
    218

    افتراضي

    Doctor : whispering again .. I certify that Eissa is a slave of Allah .. he is not a son of him .. but a prophet only with miracle on his birth & nothing else .
    It's very strange thing

    I can understand that Christian Professor can't prove that Jesus is God because that not in the bible

    But , How he can't prove that by the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God as mentioned in the Bible

    «« توقيع Great Principles »»

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2011
    آخر نشاط
    27-02-2012
    على الساعة
    07:05 PM
    المشاركات
    18

    افتراضي

    اقتباس المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Great Principles مشاهدة المشاركة
    It's very strange thing

    I can understand that Christian Professor can't prove that Jesus is God because that not in the bible

    But , How he can't prove that by the Christian belief that Jesus is the son of God as mentioned in the Bible


    The mind say that not the son of god why he look at the bible

    «« توقيع ysooo »»

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